IMHO, there is no line (not even a fine one) between "Cost cutting" and "messing up the design". I get a lot of argument on that point and certainly you can engineer something to do the job well for less. But the engineer wanted to use material "A" (ideally) and knew that he/she needed to use material "B" because the only frontier that HP has to explore is how cheap a printer they can make and not totally destroy their rep for quality. If you can get an old HP LJ III or 4, do so. They are 10 times the printers that HP puts out now. Well.... on the other hand, I really like these LJ 4050's.... James Newton mailto:jamesnewton@geocities.com phone:1-619-652-0593 http://techref.homepage.com NOW OPEN (R/O) TO NON-MEMBERS! Members can add private/public comments/pages ($0 TANSTAAFL web hosting) PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com -----Original Message----- From: pic microcontroller discussion list [mailto:PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Kev Howard Sent: Sunday, November 21, 1999 3:52 PM To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: [OT] HP laser printers [OT] I have been using HP 5p laser printer for some time, then it died in the middle of a PIC pcb layout, The fuser had gone o/c , after stripping it down, I find it is a ceramic bar, with a thick film heater which had cracked right by a stresspoint - caused by a pressure dependant electrical contact straight onto the ceramic! Is it me being too critical or did HP mess up on the design? Kev