I have been using the NOPPP PIC Programmer that you can find on the web, and I am just curious... It says that it programs PIC16F84 and PIC16C84, and PIC16C83 ... Is it just a matter of what pin's items are connected to inorder to program other mid-range PIC's, or do they have diffrent internal programming procedures? For instance, the PIC16C72 or PIC16C77 ? Thanks! Jeremy - KB8LFA@qsl.net KB8LFA - K2 #600 http://www.qsl.net/kb8lfa/