To Octavio and Jim: Thanks guys, you both got some valid points, I agree ICE 2000 price is ridiculous, especially for a small business man like me. I am a UV pipe liner ("HI! Quentin!") and are about to step onto Flash with the 16F87x, thus my query about the ICD. After the blurb by the Microchip rep., I just wanted to get some 'real' feedback from users before I buy. I am placing my order on Monday. Thanks. Jim, RE your side note: I am with you. Sofar, PIC's has been able to full fill every microprocessor design needs. I am happy with it, and so are my customers. So I just ignore the PIC/Atmel/Scenix wars. Regards Quentin