Hi Jonathan Yup, your reply just highlights my point that money for safety can just as well be used for something else if you follow a certain train (pun not intended) of thought. So where does it leave safety standards then? We are back to square one. We have another thing here in SA. 5 Billion Pounds were spend to upgrade military hardware when we don't have any immediate enemies to talk about, but our police, health care, schooling, etc. are still way bellow standard... I know who to blame, but then I'll be talking politics. This thread has gone waayyy off topic for the PIClist anyway. Reply private if you wish to continue. Quentin