We can try as much as we like to increase safety and their will always be somebody else who will tell us otherwise. The recent train crash in London is a case in point. After another simular crash in the same area a few years ago, people were lobbying get the anti collision systems fitted. Not done, reason: No money. There are many such examples. Another thing that gets to me is that always something bad must happen before people jump up and take note. Wagner's point well taken. Quentin