My thanks to Jim Robertson who clarified that it is not possible to use an upgraded Picstart 16b1 to program a 17C43. For several reasons, I can not use the Windows-based development tools for the Picstart+ so that leaves me with one last question. Is it possible to build a dedicated programmer for the 17C43? I had such a nice idea for a project which would have used the PWM outputs and the A/D converter for an audio device, but it looks like Murphy is alive and well today. It would be so great if one wasn't forced to use Windows in order to operate the Picstart+. I know in my heart that there is no valid technical reason for this, only artificial ones. Martin McCormick WB5AGZ Stillwater, OK OSU Center for Computing and Information Services Data Communications Group