Worked more on this, it's still at a place where: It needs some serious work! This is still a PRE-Draft, not the real thing Here's the draft, somewhat edited, "It won't even compile yet" : --- Begin --- HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE There is one way that works to get off the list. DO NOT post to the list. This might get you off, but is the worst way to do it; A post to the list goes to all subscribers, is VERY slow and gets everyone angry with you. If Jory & Mark miss seeing it (and they may not read all of every post, and may occasionally take a day off), you don't get off the list. The best, fastest way is to post to the PICList "Command Input Port": LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU (i.e. mailto:LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU) from the address at which you are subscribed, containing nothing but unsubscribe PICList in the first line of the message. This is automatically executed and is the fastest method. The message must contain the exact words "unsubscribe PICList", no other spelling works. You'll get a confirmation e-mail, with directions on how to confirm (Basically: just reply with the word "ok" in the body), and you'll be off the list. If you are trying to unsubscribe from an address different from the one you subscribed from, probably best to send an e-mail to PICList-Request@MITVMA.MIT.EDU (E-Mail to that address is copied to all of the list admins), and clearly ask to have your OLD address unsubscribed. I cc my response to your old & new addresses (As a courtesy), and if I'm not here Jory can catch you, this way. If you have difficulties, or do not understand what to do, send an e-mail message to PICList-Request@MITVMA.MIT.EDU, and one of us will try to help you. Do tell us you want help with the PICList as we both are on / run more than one list! PURPOSE and ETIQUETTE This list is for the specific purpose of providing a forum about the use, learning about, safety with, and enjoyment of MicroChip PICs. Other support "Glue" chips are acceptable off-topic subjects, to some extent. Questions about Sensors, power supplies, safely running your PIC project on a car or airplane's electrical system, are also quite acceptable off-topic subjects; See the Beginners' FAQ questions later for markings for OT questions. Commercial posts, flaming, spamming, virus warnings, etc. do not belong in this mailing list, and posting same could result in our removing you from the list. (Post to the Admins, let US warn the list, that way we just see one warning on the list, not 1200!) Humor happens here, and is welcome so long as it doesn't result in bodily harm from too many list readers falling out of their chairs, and so long as it's kept in reasonable bounds. Humor isn't the purpose of the list, but the good laugh provided (relevant to PICs especially) is very welcome on occasion! (At the same time, too much of a good thing, is too much.) Use your judgement and good sense and experience as a guide. Posting messages to the list is restricted to subscribers, who are defined as anyone posting with a logon name and address identical to one in the list of subscribers. You cannot post to the list either from a different address or if you are unsubscribed. [For more information about this mailing list, post to: LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU (i.e. mailto:LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU) with the text info PICLIST in the first line of your message. Also read http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/piclist.html, Tjaart's handy web page. Also, see the Archives at http://www.iversoft.com/piclist.] This Mini-FAQ is posted by Mark Willis monthly (early in the month), to help Jory out. Suggested updates or changes, Post to: Mark will post this with this EXACT same title [unless revised, then the revision date will change] to help keep the list uncluttered with "unsubscribe" requests, and will e-mail it to anyone on request. Newbie FAQ topics and questions: "RA4 doesn't behave right. It will pull down, but not up, even though I set it as an output pin & am writing a '1' to it." RA4 is an open drain (same as an open collector basically) output pin. You need to either (a) use a different port pin, or (b) put a pull-up resistor from that pin to Vdd (+5V typically), to make the pin pull up as default. "When I set a port pin as an input, then ground & unground it with a switch, it sometimes works & other times doesn't work." You have a floating input; You want to use a pull-up or a pull-down resistor, if you are driving this pin with an open drain or a switch to Vcc or Ground, directly. {mention weak pull-ups?} 10k is a good value here. "How do I describe my code that's not working well, to the list?" It helps a lot if you post an URL (if the code's large), or the offending 15-20 lines or so, to the list (Some people pay for their connect time by the minute, so keep it as short as you can; OTOH, some people read the list offline, so they cannot help you if you have short code snippets & don't include them, use judgement here.) It also helps if your code uses standard include files, and you describe the schematic somewhat (i.e. if your code is toggling ra4, and we don't know that you want it to toggle rb4, we'll wonder what problem exactly you're having ) It also helps to have a clear idea what the problem you perceive, IS, what you observe, and what you expect / want to heppen! Posting a short message asking for help, with a good descriptive Subject line like "Need a mentor, 16F84 Remote Tachometer for R/C boat", then giving the person who volunteers all the info you have, can be more effective than asking a really good question, but using a completely non-descriptive Subject line like "problem" or "Help me!". Think a little on those subject lines, try to distill your whole post into that line, and you'll get faster answers. "My Windowed part works one way usually and sometimes another, now I burned an OTP part and it behaves in the undesired of the two above." You need to cover the window on /JW parts, then they'll not have memory contents affected by ambient light; I use a small piece of foil, covered by electrical tape, this is simple to clean, for erasing, and is very opaque to even IR light (Most electrical tape's transparent to IR light somewhat.) If you're doing repeated burns & erase cycles, can use a small piece of thick cardboard or something like that, you mainly want to block visible light (when indoors, which is where most of us work.) "I want to post a request for information that no-one else on the list may want to hear about; What do I do?" Sidestep for a second; We use the subject line to mark posts for what their content is; It's good to post a question like "What's the difference between a 16F84 and a 16F84A", with something like "Differences between 16F84 and F84A?" as a subject line. Many people won't read posts if they don't know what it's about. Now back to your question; We use the flag [OT] to designate that a particular post is Off Topic for the PicList. This doesn't always mean that no-one on the list wants to see your post; It means that you know you're posting not strictly about PICs, PIC Programming, or other goodies attached to PICs, but you still need the information. So, there are sort of 4 categories: {Still working on this, folks, so let us polish this up & we'll see where it goes.} #1: Directly related to PICs. Programming questions, misbehavior questions, code optimization, Post to the list. #2: Stuff attached to a PIC project; Hooking up to the points on your older car to make an electronic ignition module, for example. Right now, this is marked either with or without [OT], we're probably migrating to a [Tech] marking for this, to clarify things. Time will tell. #2a: Electronics Related stuff; Atmel, Scenix, Motorola, etc. processors, coding, projects, etc.; #3: Stuff that's sort of off-topic for the PICList, but still technical in nature; Some of this would be good for posting to the list directly, with an [OT] marking (for example, the recent Train threads, which have wandered the gamut from Train braking by PIC-controlled rocket motors, to kids' educational toys, some of these threads are quite hypothetical & non-PIC related; If you wander too far afield, but think most other PICList members will enjoy what you have to post, consider posting your reply under an [OT], changed subject line; Minimize this somewhat, as otherwise one thread breaks into 157 threads, though. #3a: Reminisces about the bad old days in High School when you blew up $12 worth of electronics project by applying too high a voltage; Probably post as [OT] to the list, some of those have been pretty hilarious #3a: Questions that're PICList related but don't need discussion on the list, for example a tutorial about drilling 0.010" holes through 0.020" wire (I want to know, but not everyone will), probably best if these are posted to the list with Reply-To set to your personal e-mail address, and you ask people to post to you personally; Also good if you post #4: Political opinions, Religions opinions, SPAM, personal flames, fighting, and so on; We've been perhaps too lenient, and I suspect we'll start throwing people off the list in future, for these. If you want to say something like this, you can use your signature line to state your opinion, provided it's not flaming someone; If someone posts completely off topic on this, please post at them off the list, not ON the list, as (even though we've been pretty mellow) we are likely to use automated processes in future to end threads that're destructive. More later on this. "Why all these different subject headers?" Some people on the PICList want JUST PIC programming and code optimization information - they're too busy, or uninterested, in the other categories. Some people want it all, want to talk about their R/C plane that crashed because they forgot to re-attach the antenna, about what processor(s) are best for their project, and so on. Many are somewhere in the middle. If we all use these conventions, we'll be able to pick & choose what posts interest us most, and read those first, as well as to ignore or read last, those we don't care so much about. Some people don't have a lot of time during the week, and would like sleep after a 14 hour day & 3 hours of commuting, they want to only spend 15 minutes or so reading the PICList, not 3 hours {I'm tired & need to work more on ALL of this - Comments? Volunteers to take the Mini-FAQ over as I get HEAT in this place, and get more computers running?} --- End --- Mark, mwillis@FoxInternet.Net