Hey if u plug in a pic chip specifically a 16c84 right out the packaging un prog rammed and wire it to +5v and mclr to +5v trough a 1k resistor and place a 4mhz crystale with two caps on it going to ground should the crystal be oscillating i f u put a logic probe on it or no? cause my chip isnt. Im new to pic's.. Send someone a cool Dynamitemail flashcard greeting!! And get rewarded. GO AHEAD! http://cards.dynamitemail.com/index.php3?rid=fc-41