To all, It seems to me the SOLUTIONS are worse than the PROBLEM. More bandwidth is being used figuring out a solution to a problem than the problem itself is causing. What's the big deal? True, I don't host the list, and also true, I am not the one who started the list, but considering that Jory and Mark have the responsibility to be master of the list, I say they should be allowed to make the decision as to what, if anything , should be done. If they ask for help and/or suggestions, by all means oblige. But I'm sorry, I just don't see the problem. This list and it's members are too valuable a resource for legitimate PIC problem and questions to be squabbling over petty insignificant OT posts. They are usually short lived. And if people who frequent the list don't like it, they can always move on. I don't have an attitude here either. I just think that with anything like this on the internet, or anywhere for that matter, where countless people have access to the resource, there are going to be topics that are posted that aren't popular with everyone. This is human nature and should be expected. It doesn't have to be liked or appreciated, but how can anyone realistically draw a line? If you do, you'll please 10 people and offend 20 more. It just seems to me to be a situation where no matter what you do, there will always be a loser. Maybe even the same situation if you do nothing. Maybe I'm overstepping my bounds, and if I am, let me know and I'll cease and desist. One last thing, then I'll hush. As far as I'm concerned, the OT posts aren't bothersome. If I'm not interested, I don't read them and blow them away. Otherwise, I do read them. And lots of time I pick up something I didn't know before. Some things posted, (not many mind you), upset me occasionally. But I just remember that to the author, that may be important to them, and who am I to condemn what they have to say? Yes, I know that this list is not the proper place to discuss some of these subjects, especially the controversial ones such as religeon and politics, but it's not a perfect world. As I've stated before, I get enough value from the WHEAT of the list to get lost in the CHAFF. I guess what I'm trying to say is that from my point of view, I get lots of information from this list regarding PIC's and other subjects, and anything dealing with subjects other than PIC's, if I don't like it, I'll just delete it and go on my merry way. I don't let the OT posts or controversial posts bother me. But this is from a user point of view. If I were the master of the list, or was providing the server space for the site, I may (probably) have a different point of view and different motivations. Anyway, that't how I feel about the subject. And if anyone thinks I'm out of line here, let me know and I'll not sound off again. Regards and Thanks for listening, Jim -----Original Message----- From: Steve Kelley To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Date: Thursday, September 30, 1999 9:06 PM Subject: Re: [OT] suggestion for dealing with "noise" >Since most everyone receiving the *list* is interested in coding . . . . . why >not just * code* the topics , to allow the best filtering possible. I know with >*outlook express* , I can setup inbox assistant to perform all of it automatically. >Stashing each topic catagory in a separate folder for later viewing / deleting. >What could be so hard about that ! I would suggest the following example and >there could be a rule that if a subscriber doesn't abide by the coding then they >can have their email locked out of the server . > >- No Code = Pic Related Topic Only > >- [OT] = Off Topic , but related to electronics or programming > >- [PT] = Personal Topics > >So . . . with that , I can setup inbox assistant to * flush * the mailbox , less what I >want to see. Gee !!! especially useful for those lengthy mid-western thunderstorms >that keep you off line long enough to accumilate 150 + messages !!! > >Regards . . . > Steve > >-----Original Message----- >From: Richard Graziano >To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU >Date: Thursday, September 30, 1999 7:20 PM >Subject: Re: [OT] suggestion for dealing with "noise" > > >>How about setting one day, say Friday, for religious and political OT? >> >>Brian Kraut wrote: >> >>> I don't think it would be at all impolite for you or Jory to butt in on >>> religious/political/otherwise non technical and non contributory posts and say >>> when it is time to take it offline for those that can't figure it ot for >>> themselves. >>> >>> Mark Willis wrote: >>> >>> > I'll re-post the Mini-FAQ soonly, it covers all this (Need to go get >>> > things done today.) >>> > >>> > Mark >>> > >>> > Stevens, Kurt wrote: >>> > > >>> > > I like this idea, but I believe it would have to work in conjunction with an >>> > > agreed upon list of what constituted unacceptable postings. These might >>> > > include: >>> > > >>> > > personal attacks >>> > > religion >>> > > politics >>> > > spam >>> > > >>> > > Is there a set of guidlines that defines limits for posting to the piclist, >>> > > and if not, why not? >>> > > >>> > > > ---------- >>> > > > From: William K. Borsum[SMTP:borsum@DASCOR.COM] >>> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 1:19 AM >>> > > > To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU >>> > > > Subject: [OT] suggestion for dealing with "noise" >>> > > > >>> > > > Hi All: >>> > > > Just got to get my penny's worth in again... >>> > > > >>> > > > Some years ago I was a moderator at a rather large conference. As usual >>> > > > there were a few folks who insisted on carrying on loud conversations in >>> > > > the auditorium during the talks. During the first lunch break, a number >>> > > > of >>> > > > people came to me as a "representative of authority" and cried, pleaded, >>> > > > begged and threatened me to please DO something about this extreme >>> > > > discourtesy to the other attendees. >>> > > > >>> > > > After the break, I pointed out to the audience that many things don't work >>> > > > in our lives, and the lives of others because no one is willing to take >>> > > > personal responsibility for fixing the situation--they would rather let >>> > > > "the authorities" handle it. I suggested that if the folks in the >>> > > > audience >>> > > > found the situation getting out of hand, then the offenders should be >>> > > > gently and lovingly corrected. my intention was that those around the >>> > > > chatterboxes should get them aside and suggest they take their >>> > > > conversations out into the foyer. >>> > > > >>> > > > Things went well for an hour or so, and all was quiet until, inevitably, >>> > > > the chatterboxes started up again. Almost in unison, 750 people turned >>> > > > towards them and said SHUSH. >>> > > > >>> > > > Its a thought. If I got multiple messages (OFF THE LIST PLEASE!) telling >>> > > > me to SHUSH, there's a chance I might get the idea that my conduct was not >>> > > > appropriate. >>> > > > >>> > > > Kelly >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > William K. Borsum, P.E. -- OEM Dataloggers and Instrumentation Systems >>> > > > & San Diego, California, USA >>> > > > >>