Hi, where can I found the ATMEL list? I ask bcus in the last time the local provider has serious problems to provide the appropriate amount & quality of PICs. He told me the problem is a minimal ordering amount (I recall 1000 by individual sorts). So I'm afraid it starts a down-running spirale; the more disappointed customers, the less orders, which increases number of disappointed customers etc. Another provider now sells AT89C2051, for $2.75. Can be compared with 16F84 (but no EEPROM), or with 16C622. However, it has: - 2k Flash - a built-in USART - one built-in comparator - 128 byte RAM area - 15 I/O pins - 2 external IT I guess it is time for me to think about its usage in SOME starting project. ----[discussion material follows]---- I think a smallish problem is caused by an otherwise good thing: the great variety of PICs. It may be a fine but if you think e. g. the following: there are 16C620, 621, 622, both for 4 and 20 MHz and in a wide variety of housing, would not be an advantage to keep only one, say 16C622? The economy of scale would decrease the price so that single one would cost as many as the 620 nowadays? (I forget the temperature variety, which also doubles the count of sorts...) On the other hand, as Mchip has announced the new flash types, it lead to extremely high expectations, especially because of competing producers has similar products (Hitachi, Atmel, etc). This lead also to a decreased demand for another PICs. On the other hand, MChip announced also the 18Cxx line. Such way the firm landed in a bottleneck. I do not know whether Mchip is strong enough to cope with this bundle of home-made problems, but I wish him (in the interest all of us) good luck. I would suggest to clean up the production line and decrease the variety. Not to forget that Mchip offers his production line alone (in my opinion SX is not a true alternative due to the limited stack depth), contrary to the '51 line, where one has a choice to select among different producers (Intel, Dallas, Philips, Atmel, Siemens and many others). Here is my $0.02. Imre On Sat, 18 Sep 1999, Don McKenzie wrote: > Bertel Schmitt wrote: > > > > "sintax" , relayed via sisuser@ip.co.za , uploaded a > > Happy virus to this list. This is an ongoing problem and it is really > > getting nauseating. People have complained to ip.co.za several times. If > > they can't get their adolescent users under control, I move to disconnect > > the sisuser@ip.co.za relay altogether. > > If you re-read the header, you will find that the user is a PICLIST > member also, and the message was sent to the piclist by him. So it's our > problem also. Calling him names won't help, and there is no relay in > place, it is simply a dual addressed message by a person who is a member > of both lists. You will find hundreds of users in this position. I am > sending a copy of this to the sisuser list also. > > You will find the ip.co.za domain is run by a prominent South African > Piclister (well I think he is busy these days, we don't hear much) that > runs these lists at his own expense. He also started and runs the atmel > list, bascom list for atmels, and many lists for private individuals. > > He started the atmel list to keep the signal to noise ratio down on this > list, as there was no venue for the atmel avr guys in place, so you will > find piclisters on many "ip.co.za" lists, I will guarantee it. > > Has anyone gone to the trouble to inform Sintax that he has the virus in > his email program, so as to assist him in removing it? > > He has asked a legitimate pic question, and will be unaware of the virus > problem. > How many others have we seen do just his on this list? > > Don McKenzie mailto:don@dontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com > > Don's Download Dungeon: http://www.dontronics.com/download.html > Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html > Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest: http://www.simmstick.com > >