If you are going to roll your own programmer, maybe you would like to look at the one at the web site below. It's free. I'm in the process of writing source code for the 15C5X chips and should have it posted soon. When the 18CXXX chips come out this programmer will be based on that chip to make it run a lot faster. PicNPoke Beginners PIC Tools has a programmer as part of the total package. It also comes with the programmer source code supplied. It is based on a 16C74 chip, but the code should be able to be ported to a 16F87X. Electronics Australia just mentioned that the 18CXXX chips are already available, but I don't think so. When I was at the Microchip seminar they said sometime towards the end of this year. -- Best regards Tony 'The Engine' - Design your own programmer. http://www.picnpoke.com Email picnpoke@cdi.com.au