The Microchip "ICSP" guide has a sample driver board schematic, but ÊI have not tried it so can't comment on how well it works. I have used a Needham Emp20 Êwith a handmade adapter and that worked fine. Am now using the Promate II with the "ICSP" adapter which cost an extra $300 in addition to the cost of the programmer. This setup is working very well and I have only 4.7k isolation resistors. @ Sent by: pic microcontroller discussion list 06/17/99 09:05 AM MST Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU cc: bcc: Subject: In circuit programming Hi Folks, I am new to the list, and relatively new to PICS. ÊI poked thru the archives looking for this answer, but didn't find it. (It may be there, though: that's a big archive) I tried what someone else had tried: i wired the picstart into my circuit to program the pic 12c672. ÊFor me, in circuit means the chip is in the final application, with no dips, etc to isolate it. I generally have 10k loads on the pins. Is there a modification you can make to the picstart (a buffer, etc) that will allow it to program in circuit? ÊIs there another relatively inexpensive programmer that will do this? ÊThe microchip pro-mate costs $1000, which i will spend if we go into production with this circuit, but for prototyping, it's a little high. Thanks for any help, eric Eric Hufstedler Kilovac Division of CIIT Research & Development 805-684-4575 x152 erich@kilovac.com