The Microchip "ICSP" guide has a sample driver board schematic, but �I have not tried it so can't comment on how well it works. I have used a Needham Emp20 �with a handmade adapter and that worked fine. Am now using the Promate II with the "ICSP" adapter which cost an extra $300 in addition to the cost of the programmer. This setup is working very well and I have only 4.7k isolation resistors. @ Sent by: pic microcontroller discussion list <PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU> 06/17/99 09:05 AM MST Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU cc: bcc: Subject: In circuit programming Hi Folks, I am new to the list, and relatively new to PICS. �I poked thru the archives looking for this answer, but didn't find it. (It may be there, though: that's a big archive) I tried what someone else had tried: i wired the picstart into my circuit to program the pic 12c672. �For me, in circuit means the chip is in the final application, with no dips, etc to isolate it. I generally have 10k loads on the pins. Is there a modification you can make to the picstart (a buffer, etc) that will allow it to program in circuit? �Is there another relatively inexpensive programmer that will do this? �The microchip pro-mate costs $1000, which i will spend if we go into production with this circuit, but for prototyping, it's a little high. Thanks for any help, eric Eric Hufstedler Kilovac Division of CIIT Research & Development 805-684-4575 x152 erich@kilovac.com