I finally got my picall programmer working (I have >NO< idea why... I went over every solder joint for the 3rd time..and all of the sudden it started working, go figure). So, I have now programmed my first 16F877! I'm quite excited. Turns out both of the 16f877s I put in backwards are okay. Thanks to all that helped... and if anyone is building a PicAll anytime soon, I have a few pointers...just ask :-) -- Aaron (NOW I get to ask some reallly dumb questions :-) )