Caution: long OT about power line frequency, why, and how accurate. If your eyes just glazed over, delete me now! :) 1) I talked to someone in Engineering at the local utility here in Vermont, USA. The line frequency does vary slightly over the course of the day. (usually decreasing during times of heavy load). At the end of the day, they run slightly faster or slower as needed so that the total line cycles for the day is EXACTLY 5184000. That is, they correct so that the number of line cycles is correct in each midnight-to-midnight period. I didn't ask him what they do about daylight savings time :) 2) The basic timebase is atomic clocks of some kind (Rubidium oscillators, I think). There is a network (used to be leased phone lines, maybe satellite, now) of frequency standards which go from regional master clocks, to local grid master clocks, to individual generator's controllers. Most of the slave clocks are Phase-locked-loop or just amplified copies of the master. Seems like they could derive the master oscillator from the GPS signal if they wanted to set a standard, but as far as I know they are independant now. 3) Someone asked: > Why is this done? I mean why does the power line need to be EXACTLY 60Hz? Most generators are synchronous machines, when they are connected to the grid, you put torque in and they put power into the line. If you load them down, they are motors and draw power from the line. When you start them up, if the rotation speed and phase is not exactly in synch with the grid, they draw huge fault currents until they synchronize or blow the overload breakers open. So they HAVE to be able to synchronize. Why 60 Hz? I suspect that Charles Steinmetz et al. at Westinghouse picked 60Hz as their standard, based on a tradeoff of transformer losses versus capacitive / resistive losses for their proposed grids based on the technology at the time. Maybe not optimal any more, but there you are. Why 50Hz in Europe? Why references? If each generator synchronized only to the local grid, there would be phase shifts across the grid and power would flow haphazardly around the grid, causing losses; and there would be no control of who delivered power to whom. The generators control their speed and phase very carefully to put the desired amount of power into the grid. Hence the need for an independent reference oscillator. So, as a side effect of needing accurate synchronization, we have a frequency reference that is widely distributed, and accurate. UNfortunately, the resolution at 60 Hz is poor for many timing tasks. Oh well. So: to come back on topic. For time-of-day clocks, where mains power is available, you _can_ depend on that for long-term accuracy. However, you will run slow when the grid is heavily loaded, and run fast to catch up later. And be dead when the mains fails. Our data loggers use watch crystals and calibrate them by tweaking the load capacitance when needed to get to +/- 1ppm. ST Microelectronics makes a real-time-clock chip with cool digital frequency correction. (The chip will skip or double pulses to correct for crystal initial tolerance if you calibrate it.) If temperature is not varying wildly, they work very well. If temperature is unpredictable, the crystal temperature coefficient is a problem. Another reference is needed for very accurate clocks when you cannot predict or control temperature. As mentioned before, time reference transmitters is one option here in North America, I don't know if there are similar stations is Europe or Australia, etc. Another is to put the crystal in a temperature controlled "oven", if you have the power. All interesting engineering tradeoffs. ------------ Barry King Engineering Manager NRG Systems "Measuring the Wind's Energy" barry@nrgsystems.com Phone: 802-482-2255 FAX: 802-482-2272