There is no standard for rs232 over rj11 or rj45 (8 pins.) standards that are convenient at the jack tend to result in inappropriate pairing of signals in building wiring (there ARE standards for which rj11/rj45 pins go in which pairs...) cisco uses something like DSR CTS RD GND GND TX RTS DTR which has the useful property (?) of changing DTE/DCE-ness when you flip the cable over, and of allowing "smaller" cables to achieve smaller functionality. (I might have DSR/CTS and RTS/DTR reversed.) Customers have complained about the resulting pairing, though. (we shamelessly copied the center 6 pins from a common DEC terminal server scheme, just before they changed it, I think.) BillW