thanks for your time i read somewhere that when assembling for the 12c508a with mplab to leave the osscal value out , as it should already be in the 12c508ajw. i've tried reading the pic to get the osscal value using picprog , but can't find the value anywhere. i think it has been erased before i got the pic. anyway i prog the 12c508ajw & it seems to work ok. so what i'd like to know is that now i don't have the osscal value is it true that if this has happened that i just leave out the osscal value in my prog & when i use mplab , mplab will automatically put it in for me ! thanks for your time & assistance glen p.s. i wont have this prob when i prog to the 12c508a OTP , but i have some other tests i want to do before i get to tht stage