Hi again, I just want to thank all the guys who provided info about the 16C54 & 16C57 when programmed via PICSTART+ instead of PICSTART-16B. 'Phew! It was a dumb question but it was a good thing I asked - for some reason I had it it in my mind that the plastic-DIPs could be electrically erased like the the 16F84. Ah, but they're EPROMs and, without a window, they're OTP. Wasn't it one of your (US) presidents who said something like, "If you keep your mouth shut folks will think you're an idiot, but if you open it they'll know for sure"? I'll get the JWs "just in case" - sometimes the customer wants minor changes to the gizmo's function and I'd be up a tree if that happened with OTPs Regards - PJH