At 18:26 11/02/99 -0800, you wrote:
>On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, Darrel Johansen wrote:
>
>> There is a possibility that Microchip could put some or all of the
>> PICSTART 16B software into public domain.  Is there any interest
>> in the subscribers of the PICLIST to this?
>
>Are rhetorical questions necessary?
>
>Which portions are you thinking about releasing? As you know, there's a
>background task running right now on reverse engineering the picstart
>protocol. I can't speak for everyone, but I know several people who like
>to use their Picstart's under Linux. Releasing the Picstart code will just
>make this happen faster (I presume...).
>
>Scott

I didn't think it was a rhetorical question though I think some of the
replies have been misguided. On offer here is the picstart 16B stuff.
What use is this for those working on the picstart plus? Having reversed
engineered and mastered both, I can say very little, if anything.

As it was, Al Loverich suggested that he might want to give me the 16B
protocol
stuff ages ago. I didn't bother to take him up on his offer as I knew fully
that
it had little value to anyone capable of any worth while programmer design AND
WILLING TO DO IT!

Given the time I have offered my phoenix 16B upgrade and the only "limited"
interest in it, I seriously doubt that there is a great interest in the
16B. I
believe that overwhelmingly there has been an exodus to the picstart plus.
The fact that there is a linux project for the picstart plus and not the
16b is
supportive of my claim.

Regarding linux...

I have offered my TM4 protocol, the same protocol that allows the 16B to
program every PIC except the 17C parts, publicly and at no cost for years.
(The same protocol was for the 16B, 16C Warp-3 and PP1 programmers.)
Perhaps 4 or 5 linux "enthusiasts" have wasted my time getting the protocol
asking for assistance, making big statements and finally producing absolutely
nothing. Meanwhile Kevin Coble asked for and got the TM4 protocol and
produced
MACPIC. Perhaps this is why we just have crossed compared our working
picstart
plus protocol notes.

In short, it is easy to say yes to something for free. The world's junk boxes
are full of this stuff. My point is that if someone was SERIOUS then they
would not be waiting for something to fall into their laps. They would be
putting up already.

Giving out a protocol to every dreamer is a great way to damage the
interests of
those doing already and all the PIC users further down the chain. But if
microchip
wants to reduce the 16B to the same status as a "TAIT STYLE" programmer, so
be it.

It will be an opportunity to sit back and watch a whole bunch of wankers and
wannabes twiddle their thumbs and produce half hearted efforts that are a
nothing
more than a disservice to pic users. This is what you get when something is
too
easy.

Jim




________________________________________
Jim Robertson
Email: newfound@pipeline.com.au
http://www.pipeline.com.au/users/newfound
MPLAB compatible PIC programmers and firmware
upgrades for many programmers.
________________________________________