Greg,

Andy makes several good points below.  I own a RICE17A and it is a LOT
more clunky to use than the PICmaster.  MicroChip has evolved a pretty
good user interface in their MPLAB software.  The biggest hassle with
using the RICE17A is that the environment is not MPLAB! -- is RICE17
specific and it is a BIG hassle to switch back and forth.

BUT -- at this is a BIG but -- it costs $900 not $2500!  As a hobbyist
I am willing to put up with the extra hassle to save $1600 dollars.

The ICEPIC2 is an alternative at $1445, and it now supports the MPLAB
environment.  But, it is $545 more, and it lacks the ability to trace
external events.  As I am developing interrupt driven software, the
ability to trace external events was a critical feature for me.

The folks at Advance-Transdata also offer the various bond-out chips
individually, so you do not have to buy separate emulation modules
for various PIC's.  I can use the same emulation module for 16C65 and
16C76/77 by simply replacing the bond-out chip -- not the entire module.
This is a significant savings.

I tried to develop complex software using 3 16C77's and a fast EPROM eraser.
It was way too slow, so I sprang for the RICE17A.  Development is a breeze
with the ICE, even with its clunky interface, compared to using the
simulator
and the /JW parts.  However, if I made my living by developing PIC based
products I would have bought the PICmaster instead.

Finally, I was very impressed with the folks at Advance-Transdata.  I needed
to be able to display ASCII data.  Their software did not support that.  I
sent a note asking that it be added, and a couple days later I received an
e-mail with the updated software!  Also, I need to emulate a 16C77 at 20mhz.
They, like everyone else, are waiting for Microchip to get their 20mhz
bond-out
chips working.  But, they did help me out by giving me a sample of the buggy
20mhz bond-out chip Microchip was sampling so that I could experiment with
it.
When the new 20mhz chip comes out, all I have to buy is the new chip.

..Eugene.. (amateur callsign AE2F)

P.S. I am in no way affiliated with Advance-Transdata -- just a moderately
satisfied customer.  Remember, you get what you pay for :)

Greg, maybe Andy can cut you a good deal on a slightly used RICE17A? <VBG>

> -----Original Message-----
> Date:    Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:00:24 +0100
> From:    Andy David <akdavid@ULTRONICS.CO.UK>
> Subject: Re: ICE
>
> Greg,
>
> I've a PICMaster and have used it to emulate a 17c756 (plus several other
> PICs over the last 3 years). I also have a RICE17A that I have used to
> emulate a 17c43 at 32MHz. The only reason I bought the RICE was so that I
> could emulate at 32MHz. I've also used an ICEPIC.
>
> I'd _never_ recommend buying a RICE to anyone, as whenever I use it I find
> in myself new capacities for hate and anger. I don't really have the time
> to explain all the things I dislike about it, but it makes working such
> hard work and I know that I could work more effectively using a PICMaster
> and MPLAB (IF I could emulate at 32MHz!)... it's just best not to get me
> started ranting about it. I _would_ give a RICE to my worst enemy, but
> that's only because I can have a very cruel sense of humour.
>
> My advice is buy the PICMaster. I don't know when the MPLAB-ICE will be
> released, so I can't comment on if you should wait for one or buy a
> PICmaster now. If you can't get a PICMaster, I'd recommend the ICEPIC.
>
> - Andy.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Andrew David, Software Manager, Ultronics Ltd, Cheltenham.
> akdavid@Ultronics.co.uk          http:\\www.ultronics.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------