I wanted to let this thread die, but Dave had to go and call me an ignorant slut
;-)

In a message dated 98-05-12 14:14:29 EDT, I wrote:
     The real world is changing at a breakneck pace.  Teachers are isolated
     from that change.  Many technical teachers are teaching methods and
     concepts that are years out of date.  Why shouldn't they be required to
     at least attempt to stay current, and then evaluated on it?  Most technical
     people don't think twice about maintaining their education on their own
     time, why shouldn't teachers?

To which Dave replied:
     You totally missed my point (so unusual here)  The point wasn't that
     teachers should not do what they do.  The point was that they should be
     properly compensated and at very least appreciated.

Excuse me, I missed YOUR point?  You complained that teachers are required to
upgrade their skills on their own time, I replied that ALL those wanting to be
considered professionals do the same thing anyway, so why should teachers be
different.

I also said:
     Many teachers use professional development
     days as paid days off, and how many professions get 3 solid months off
     every year, which BTW, is another example of strong teacher trade unions
     forcing outdated procedures on the general public.  Those 3 months
     originally allowed students to spend the summer months helping their
     families on the farm, which, in case you haven't noticed, most families
     don't have these days.  But of course the unions ferociously resist any
     attempt to adjust the school year to reflect the current reality, despite
     the financial hardship this places on today's families when they are
     required to pay for some form of day care for kids that are in school
     the rest of the year.

And Dave responded brilliantly:
     Martin, you ignorant slut!
     You couldn't be more wrong.  True most standard school districts only
     teach 10 months out of the year (not nine as you suggest) but the teachers
     only get paid for those ten months not 12.  You try going several months
     at a time without pay.  I don't consider 35K a year with a masters degree
     a good salary. Do you?

My reply:
     OK, lets split the difference, my daughter's summer vacation starts June
     24th and ends about September 7th, that's about two and a half months.  As
     far as a master's degree fetching 35K, it is above the national average
     (for everyone I mean, not just teachers), and whether it is appropriate
     depends on what it is a master's degree in.  BTW, as an independent
     contractor, my income can be sporadic as well, but I knew that when I
     started so I don't complain.

Dave had originally stated two messages ago:
     Then they elect housewives and baptist asshole ministers to govern the
     whole thing whilst mandating methods of teaching that failed in the 40s but
     somehow are now expected to work!

To which I had replied:
     And the teacher's unions fight any attempt at reform with walkouts and
     slowdowns and "Days of Action" protests.  Witness the recent attempts to
     correct the system in Ontario Canada.  Those housewives are sending
     their children to those teachers with the hope that they will be educated
     in a manner consistent with their values and aspirations.  Are you saying
     they don't have a valid interest in the operation of the schools?  Oh, and
     BTW, let's keep your arrogant, ignorant religious prejudices out of this,
     OK?

And Dave's answer to this was:
     Wrongo again!  Those housewives are sending their kids to school with
     hopes they won't be bothered by their little bratts for a few hours of
     the day. Most parents don't give a damn about the quality of education.
     This is evident by the amount of parents that actually sit down with
     their kids every night and help them.  Good education begins at home NOT
     at school.

You have just made my case more eloquently than I ever could.  Any teacher
that believes both that their charges are little brats, and that the parents
don't care about quality education is not likely to put much effort into being
an effective teacher.  In my experience, there are few things parents care
MORE about than the quality of the education their children are exposed to.

Dave also asked:
     And by the way are you Baptist?  When , I my district,  the majority
     school board IS made up of baptists that want to meddle in my childrens
     learning (Such as teaching the girls where their place is in the home and
     that they were created from some guy's rib, I won't leave it out.

Oh, you mean you actually care what your little brats are being taught when
you get them out of your hair by sending them to school?  The fact remains
that referring to "baptist asshole ministers" does little to bolster the
credibility of your argument.

Dave had also opined:
     If you could do your job with both hands tied behind your back and one leg
     wraped around your neck, then and only then would you be qualified to have
     an opinion of what teaching is really about!

Being a smartass, I answered:
      Oohh, clever, wrap it up with the "walk a mile in their shoes"
      argument, as if you have to be an engineer to know that someone
      screwed up when a bridge falls down.

      A close friend of our family, who was a teacher for over forty years,
      is appalled by the lack of professionalism and self centered attitude
      of today's teachers.  As an example, she tells of the system in
      Ontario where teachers are paid on a scale depending on how many
      degrees that teacher has acquired, regardless of the usefulness of
      those degrees.  One teacher she knew well accumulated multiple
      degrees, entitling her to an income equal to a Vice Principal, EVEN
      THOUGH MANY OF THOSE DEGREES HAD ABSOLUTELY NO RELEVANCE TO HER
      TEACHING DUTIES.  Some time later, a need was identified at another
      NEARBY school for the expertise provided by one of her degrees, but
      she refused to transfer to that school, and the union contract
      stipulated that she could not be forced.  IMNSHO that's fine, but if
      you don't go, you don't get paid a premium for the skill you refuse to
      use.

In Dave's expert medical opinion:
     Sounds to me like your friend is bitter about some personal issues.

Hey, good call Sigmund, my friend is bitter that this type of self-centered
behaviour is typical of many teachers these days.

Dave also commented:
     And again you allowed the point of the argument to sail through your
     hair. Your friend is upset about administrative problems which are mostly
     brought on by the policy makers (You know the Baptists).  We again aren't
     talking about the teachers but the people that govern them (The idiots)

To which I must reply:
     How do you figure that a teacher ripping off a system created by the
     teacher's trade union is an example of administrative problems created
     by the poilcy makers?  I was indeed speaking of a teacher's behaviour,
     not in any way the behaviour of those that govern them.  Those that
     govern her wanted her to actually earn the bonus she received for
     having a particular otherwise irrelevant degree, perish the thought.


To everyone else on this list, my apologies for going so far off topic.
Rest assured that no matter what our friend Dave replies, I will let this
thread die here and now.  Anybody know any good PIC jokes?


Martin R. Green