Dear Kurt, I have little experience with PIC's, but a lot with breadboard to PCB conversions. Mij experience is that Murphy is the greatest opponent: Let anyboby else control your PCB layout! To avoid this kind of problems, make a little PCB to mount the high speed parts of the circuit and the cristal. Use this mount on your breadboard or use simmstick breadboards. PS you find a Forth compiler at http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Way/5807/ Leo van Loon SBB simpeltronics Netherlands tel +31 (0481) 450034 fax+31 (0481) 450051 mail sbb.simpeltron@tip.nl url http://www.sbb-simpeltronics.nl SBB simpeltronics ontwikkelt technische projecten voor basisschool en basisvorming. SBB simpeltronics develops technical projects for children in primary and secondary education.