Adam, 1)Double checked your wiring for errors 2)You must use the new programmer software for 12c508 this is P50XV13 Send me your e-mail address if you need it. Mo >i have built the pic2 programmer, and when i try to program a pic 12c508 >it says that notice ocilation value not their and its starts to program >but when it gets done . it trys to verify twice and both come back false >... if any one can tell me what is wrong i would be thankful... > >adam >