Charles, I'll second the vote for Myke Predko's book. It goes from basics to fairly advanced and has good practical examples. Since I bought it I've only put 1 newbie question append to Piclist ;-) I borrowed the Nigel Gardener - Beginners Guide from my library. It's quite expensive and doesn't cover anywhere near the detail of Myke's book. I didn't find it too useful personally. Brian. Brian Jones Java Technology Centre IBM Hursley