There is a place that sells a programmer kit that says it works with the "F" parts. The kit sells for $39.00 http://www.itutech.com/pic-1kit.htm Note: I haven't done any business with them. I ran across them in Circuit Cellar Mag, while looking for a Cheap Pic Programmer myself. BTW: Is $39.00 a good price? I'm an 8031 programmer usually, but want to procuce some REALLY low cost devices.. so I'm looking into the PIC series. Chuck Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=x-user-defined; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Charles Bennett Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" Attachment converted: wonderland:vcard.vcf (TEXT/CSOm) (0000F06E)