Hi Guys With Microchip discontinuing the 16c84 I decided to concentrate my efforts on the F84. First things first.... I need to find a circuit for a low cost (read homemade cheap programmer even a second sememster college student can afford.... that meens almost free) 16C84 programmer for either the serial port and the parrallel port. i have tons of examples for the 16c84 but none for the one i need. Is there a beginners F84 page? Thanks for your help. Charles ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com