I have heard of a commercial product sold in the UK called a PICBuster, and I have seen a suggested attack method on the 16C84 which is alleged to work (it also sounded likely to fry the chip, though) - search on AltaVista for 16C84 and code and protect, I think. The interest in Europe regarding PIC code protection defeating is largely due to the use of these chips in satellite scrambling systems. There is a thriving black market in smartcards which defeat the encryption systems. Why they bother, I can't imagine. Its only 500 channels of utter crap, anyway, but that's human nature for you..... What these minds could do in solving the world's *real* problems (sigh!) > ---------- > From: Pete Klammer[SMTP:pklammer@RACOM.COM] > Reply To: pic microcontroller discussion list > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 6:31 AM > To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: Re: CODE SECURE WITH PIC? > > Terviist! > > please, can you be more specific? > > Can you tell me who offers such services, or how to find them? > > I don't doubt the technical feasibility of this, but as it is > presented > so far, > it sounds like one of those "urban legends" (you know: the story about > the dog > in the closet choking on the burglar's finger it had bitten off, or > whatever that was...) > > I would like to know how much it really costs and how long it really > takes, > and what the success rate is (do you need a number of parts to ensure > full ROM reconstruction), > is it a destructive process (can you sneak the cracked part back into > service?). > > And then I would like to hear these guys discuss what methods are > better, more expensive, etc. > > Peter F. Klammer / pklammer@racom.com > Racom Systems, Inc. / 6080 Greenwood Plaza Blvd. / Englewood, CO 80111 > (303)773-7411 / FAX:(303)771-4708 / http://www.racom.com > World's First Dual-Interface Symmetric-Access FRAM Smartcard > > > ---------- > > From: Alexey Vladimirov[SMTP:avlad@MAILBOX.RIGA.LV] > > Reply To: pic microcontroller discussion list > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 7:36 AM > > To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU > > Subject: CODE SECURE WITH PIC? > > > > 15 Dec 97, zhuxh@cheerful.com writes to All: > > > > z> I am woundering if the code protection with PIC's is as secure > as > > z> promised by Microchip? > > > > Yes, due to Microchip promise only, that code protection exists, and > > nothing > > about actual strength of code protection. > > > > z> as far as I know, there is a company in Beijin that offers > service > > to > > z> help decode the Microchip's PICs. The cost is about US$1000 for > > each > > z> chip! > > > > The same service you can also found in Moskow, Russia. They promise > > any > > protected PIC code reverse engineering with cost lower, than $1000 > > (same price!) in one-two days. For PIC16C84 it can be done for > almost > > free and > > for PIC16F8x price is lower, than $100. Probably, both companies use > > some > > technological backdoors in Microchip products. Sorry, I don't know > any > > technical details, only see advertisiments and know some cases of > the > > successfull using of this service. > > > > z> I am afriad my own coding with PICs will be copied by others one > > day. > > z> Do you have any idea on this? Is my worry unnecessary? > > > > The only things, that can protect you - change you product as > > frequently, as > > possible, add new features, new ideas and didn't try to obtain > > superprofit. > > If you need really protected product for security applications - use > > special > > security designed chips, not wide available microcontrollers. > > > > Alexey > > > > --- GoldED/2 2.50+ > > >