1) All the other vendors have already gone flash. Not Microchip. My customers want to know why we cannot just reprogram (I mean everybody does it, right?). When I politely try to explain to them that Microchip chose not to go flash when they should have, they tell me : "We don't give a damn" This is a valid attitude. Huh? There's a very small subset of microcontrollers available with flash program memory, and MANY of those carry a hefty price premium. Looks to me like Atmel is the only manufacturer throwing flash controllers in the very-low-end arena, with microchip coming in second by having the 16C/F84. What other $6 or less flash microcontrollers are YOU talking about? 2) All the PICs out there already have ICE capability built-in on the silicon. Why not use it? Why make people pay $2490 + probe for an ICE when they can get it for $5 ? (Wait - I think I am getting it) I don't want the pins wasted. I thought (special) bond-out chips were common practice for microcontroller ICE support. It'd be cool to have the "extra" 4 pins on a PLCC-44 be some sort of background debugger interface, but I don't want my 18 pin controller to be a 24(?) pin controller... BillW