S... On a perfboard prototype I'm working on, I'm having startup problems. S... I usually put a regular socket on the perfboards. I have made several Zif socket adapters that plug into the proto boards. I stack one or two machine pin sockets under the zif socket to gain clearance over the components that might be on the perf board. I had crystal startup problems using this kludge. I fixed it by clipping the pins on the adapter going down to the crystal circuit on the perf board, and building a crystal circuit on the zif socket. Engineers are always picky about pwb layout around crystals (I do the layout, and I'm the one they pick on). The crystal and its' caps have the highest priority during component placement. Runs are short and wide. The two capacitors' ground connections are close together, and close to the processors ground pin. If its' a two layer board, the capacitors have their own run to the processors ground, and that run is isolated from all other ground connections. Joe