Greg enlightened us all with,... >. It does seem that the 16F84 is a favorite starting chip. But as > to software or programmers I am really lost. If you find some stuff > let me know. I'm training a technician in basic PIC (not PICBasic) right now. Here's the steps we're going to take: Get a David Tait 16c84 programmer (very cheap) or talk your MCHIP rep into getting a good price on an old PICstart 1b (semi obsolete). Later, get a good programmer. Later yet, get an emulator. Get MPLAB for free from MCHIP Get databooks on the processor you will use. Try to write a piece of code that will blink an LED. It won't run or compile at all the first time you wrote it, unless you are Bill Gates or are very lucky. Ask dumb questions here and with your MCHIP rep until it runs. Build it. Then make it do more. make the LED time out accurately. add a peizo speaker or a relay. Make it read a key. etc. etc. Attached is an example of such a file that I use to life test relays. It is the simplest functioning program I have, and is a useful learning tool. It is written for the 12C508, but would work on the 16C84 with some modifications. Pick over it, and ask me how it works. Best Regards, Lawrence Lile