William Cops Westfield noted: Have you ever thought about that there might be different ways to this goal, and maybe even different goals denominated by this phrase "no profit"? A lot of ecconomic theories assume that the total amount of wealth in the world is constant. If you can create things of value out of near nothingness (ie software, silicon chips, advertising, art, etc), this is no longer true. If you want to allow wealth to be CREATED (which certainly seems like a good idea to me), then somewhere someone has to make a profit as well. The whole basis of the economic theory taught in Universities is dead wrong. they define economics as "the study of the distribution of scarce resources". As Bill noted, this is no longer a viable definition. I highly recommend you read "Unlimited Wealth" by Paul Zane Pilzer (He's the guy who told Congress the S&L companies were going to collapse several years before it happened, and no-one listened). This is an incredibly clear, layman's explanation of why the whole premise of accepted economic theory is messed up. This book should be available in the business section of your local bookstore, or directly from Zane Publishing. Paul Pilzer was an economic adviser for 3 of the last 4 US Presidents (he, like me, doesn't have a lot of time for slick Willy). BTW, just for the record, in case you couldn't tell, I am a raving economic and social conservative, so don't contradict me or I'll bite the head off your baby and line my pockets on the backs of the poor in your household. Just kidding! (about the baby and lining my pockets, not about being a raving conservative). CIAO - Martin R. Green elimar@bigfoot.com PS. broke people can't help other broke people! Every physical thing (outside of natural stuff, of course) that you value in this world took money to create it.