It was late when i wrote the original post on this so i will put more detail in it now. The EC++ has the following features eleiminated: multiple inheritance virtual base classes templates run time-type indentification namespaces exceptions mutable specifiers The article staes multiple inheritance, exceptions and run time-type identification incur run-time overhead whether or not they are actually used in an application. The article goes on to say one of the stated goals is to take into consideration the memory limitations of embedded applications. Reducing certain features eliminates the need for their corresponding run-time libraries. However, the consortium that is putting this together wants to add some other run-time libraries to support things like input and output to strings and using allocators for string objects. Thought this may not be directly PIC related, since the language seems to be aimed at powerful processors, I thought i'd just pass it along. Rob