Enough already! Can't handle the $25/hr job? Then don't take it! I have a trash can icon on the top left of my (paid for Eudora Pro) e-mail software. Look for something like it on your software - and use it! Your chiding abuse of someone offering a project for payment is reminiscent of the missionary approach - applying your value system to everyone on the planet for the sake of 'saving them'. I make my living in the industrial control field (have for some 16 years), and yet I will take on work for less than cost if I get to learn something, or if I value the opportunity to get into a different market, or to fill a scheduling void, or to demonstrate a capability with an eye to future projects etc. etc. I hope you get the idea of my pointing out a universe of possible reasons for taking on a job or a project, rather than expecting this to be an attack on your high-minded value judgement of what's good for us. And from a business point of view, ever heard of marginal overhead contribution? Makes a heck of a difference at the end of the year! And another observation: You technical heads take a way-too-hardline approach when it comes to the monetary aspects. Take on work because you want to do it! The money will come. As has been pointed out by others on this thread, there are many possible outcomes affecting your actual-really-worked hourly rate. Prove yourself, make sure you can relate (and do the job). Make yourself invaluable, and then you will be! You will never know how many opportunities are blowing by you with this "I'm worth this much period attitude". If you absolutely can't stand the thought of other people getting rich on your work, simple, just screw it up and they will go broke! And one more thing while I'm at it: After six years of running my own operation (after some strategic mind bending) I decided that we needed a third client group. In our position the pipe lines made a lot of sense. It took three years of active promotion, site visits, proposals and demos to land the first job. I would have gladly done the first job for free if I had got an invite! Just a thought, possibly an add-on to John Dammeyers e-mail by-line could be: Pioneers are the ones, face down in the mud, with arrows in their backs. Missionaries are the ones proven wrong by the next generation. Anyone for add ons? Maybe definitions for engineers, techs, clients, salesmen... Hugo