Kalle Pihlajasaari wrote: > > Hi, > > > > > > >1. The work would be done on a subcontract bases for a fee of $25 US an > hour. > > > > > > Sounds like an opportunity for anyone that doesn't have to earn a living > > > from this type of work. In other words, if you have a real job that pays > > > your salary etc. then you can work evenings and weekends to undercut the > > > people who do this as their sole means of support. > > People who work a full day will often also not want to get involved > at a realistic US$25/h of their quality time with family, friends > and hobbies. > > > In all fairness to the original author, such jobs sometimes present a very > > useful opportunity to those who are engaged in college or have not yet entered > > the professional workforce. Someone who seeks to hire contractors at such a > > rate must be often willing to accept people with minimal experience (since > > most experienced programmers would demand more) but may provide opportunities > > that such people would otherwise not have. > > The job will again likely cost the same no matter who does it. > > The freelancer who has no added costs and is not as experienced > will most likely take longer to complete the job. > > The specialist will do it in a fith of the time for 5 times as much. > > There is nothing to say that you need to work all the hours you > quote on the job, if you work as home then hourly pay is a bit > rediculous anyway. I could quote 12 hours and take 3 and then the > US$ 100/h would be more than my normal rate, what the original poster > should have said is that they would like a quote in Dollars on how > much to do the job, hourly rate multiplied by efficiency is almost > impossible to quantify so asking for quotes with only half of that > information is very risky. > > > [1] The original author might find better people if he offered more > > Perhaps he does not care, if the designs are simple and one does not > need the designer to have experience in power conditioning, software > hardware cost tradeoffs, crash surviability and other interface > caveats then there is little risk. > > > [2] That potential respondents should be aware that better jobs may be > > available to them > > Work there is plenty of, but can they afford to pay or can you > and the work find each other. > > As was mentioned on this list [or the STAMPS list] three simple means tests > should be made before taking on work. I will Paraphrase or plagarise, > > 1. Do only interesting jobs > 2. For nice people > 3. Who have money > > and the very important single exception, compromise only on point 1. > > Having thought about these for the past few months I have to agree > that they feel complete and when applied do keep you out of trouble. > > > then I would have thought such remarks were reasonably appropriate. Your show > > of offense, however, was IMHO uncalled for. You seem to imply that there is > > Well, a slightly justifiable concern. Certainly not something that > need have been pointed out as in the long run things will balance > out. > > The only real time when you have distorted market prices in the consulting > field like in this case is if there is someone trained and supported > at someone elses (regular employer) expence and then dooing work on the > side at a price below cost beacuse time, money and experience have > been for free. This is usually temporary until such a person finds > out that their service is worth the market price and does not need to be > donated to others who would use your sponsors investment. > > Another mild reason for getting specialised work at below market prices > is if you have someone from another market tendering. Perhaps > somewhere the US$25 would be a good consulting rate. > > In conclusion, let the market decide on the pricing. > > Vive La PICs :-) > > Cheers > -- > Kalle Pihlajasaari kalle@ip.co.za http://www.ip.co.za/ip > Interface Products P O Box 15775, DOORNFONTEIN, 2028, South Africa > + 27 (11) 402-7750 Fax: 402-7751 http://www.ip.co.za/people/kalle > > DonTronics, Silicon Studio and Wirz Electronics uP Product DealerHello dear PIC-LIST subscribers! I could not even expect such an overwhelming reaction to my simple ad "Subcontractors are Welcome!" In truth, the job calls for very simple, university-like projects and it is oriented to part-time/enthusiast/student/summer-time type of activity! I was a professor of one of the European Universities for 10 years and I know more than anybody else how important for students to have this kind of additional income and be a part of some real project! More than that! If our relationship with the potential subcontractor will develop successfully we can offer to him/her the full time position in our company. In my past experience I found that this kind of exercises are very good tools to grow work force for the company. We are already working with two university students and the results that we are getting are quite encouraging! We did not mentioned students in this ad because I'm convinced that there are many other enthusiasts who would entertain this opportunity to become more professional in PICs and ern a few additional dollars! The reason why we put $25US an hour rate in the ad is to clearly state: 1. It is a real job! 2. The job does not call for the full range of consulting services 3. It is very simple (more or less LED flushing) device 4. It is a start (potentially) of the long-term relationship (depending on the performance level) 5. No liability If some of you "professionals" are offended by this rate, simply ignore it. It is not for you! But I'm really disappointed with some of your reactions because you completely missed the point! I can do it my self! I have 30 years of experience! But I feel that if I can combine needs of my company with some support for enthusiasts then entire industry will win! You can donate to the PICLIST, but you also can create jobs for the PIC enthusiasts! So, I would like to hear from you folks! Are you with me on that one? If the majority of you disagree with me, I'll withdraw the ad. But if you support my idea I would like to continue this practice to attract more people to this wonderful PIC-World! And don't worry, LUMION has money to pay for the job. We are public company and we are OK! Alex