I can program all the 16c5x and 16cxx chips. Are the others so good that it is worth upgrading to a picstart plus? Tim ------------------------------------------------------------------ If you can read this, it is the end of the message! My web pages are at http://web.ukonline.co.uk/members/tim.kerby/ My PIC site is at http://web.ukonline.co.uk/members/tim.kerby/pic/ It needs your projects! ------------------------------------------------------------------