IMHO, there is little excuse for a manufacturer not to provide sufficient documentation to use their product to ANYONE. Full support would be a different matter. This is, after all, why a lot of use are using PIC's, right? Microchip targetted the unusually small developer as customer, while other vendors were saying "sure we have a 28 pin microcontroller. In masked ROM versions. If you need at least 50K. And no you can't see the programming algorithm for our OTP processors - just buy a $$real-device-programmer$$..." Judging by the number of vendors who have since issued pic-like processors, microchip must not be regretting that decision TOO much... BillW