How could you detect (for computer input) lateral movement from within an object when no contact can be made with the ground and there are no obstacles around to bounce a signal off of. For example: How would you detect that the rear end of a car has started to slide sideways (on ice) ? The front wheels are still pointed forward (you have not started to turn the wheel to compensate). There are no walls around to bounce a signal off of. Assume you have your breaks locked up and therefore cannot use comparison of wheel velocities. Assume also, that you cannot attach any sensors to the ground, wheels or be manually activated. Remember that most movement sensors would not be able to tell the difference between laterally sliding on ice and a sharp turn. An optical sensor would detect ice but not that your sliding on it. How would you do it?? Gene