Hi All: Here are my two cents to the Final Firmware topic: In my opinion try to modify the PICSTART-16x isn't a good idea, only god (if you beleave in he) knows what stranger layout of program pins will use Microchip for the next PIC family and another thing: is better if a programmer can be used for ANY, or at least the mayor part, of the serial programmed devices. I guess that a better solution is: Make a programmer like the Octavio one, *but* don't put the ZIF in the same board, put it in a separated board with a 40 pins conector (I know, is a lot of work) then make a wire to achive the conections of the ZIF needed for the actual PICs, and finally make a new programmer but configurable (may be Octavio will be interesed on this idea), then if you need to programm another device you only must change the wire for a new one. If my description is very poore here is the schematic: ------- --------- I Wire (5 I I O Is the 40 pins connector, you only need I===================O ZIF I O some of these pins for the actual PICs I===================O I I I I ------- --------- PC controlled programmer bye, sorry for my english, SET ******************************************************************************** Salvador Eduardo Tropea (SET) - salvador@inti.edu.ar Work: INTI (National Institute of Industrial Technology) Sector: ICE (Electronic Control & Instrumentation) Post (Home): Curapaligue 2124 - Caseros (1678)- Buenos Aires - Argentina