Andy, This isn't always a problem, in some cases you might want to know what the actual state of the pins are. The programmer already knows what the pins should be. I also use this feature as a diagnostic tool to alert external hardware failures where appropriate. - -Mark >>> Andrew Warren 10 July 1996 11:13 pm >>> Yes, although most users would have phrased the question as, "Does the 16C84 have the same problem?".