By no fault of thier own, other than just listening for a while, it seems that every other day, someone asks about a low cost or DIY pic programmer. Is it possible for new members to have mailed to them not only the listserve commands but also the FAQ ? Don't get me wrong, I've asked a hashed over question before. But I usually look thru the old mail messages first (I've saved most to the appropriate catagory). But you never save all, or the ones from last year talking about zero crossing detect (for example). So I'll probably asked a repeated question again, but it does seem redundant for the same requests for programmers (from different members) at least every other day. The FAQ use to be mailed once and a while to the list, but I haven't seen it for a while. This is a very usefull list, with lotsa smart folks out there, and this is NOT meant to scare off those just starting out. We all have to learn from somewhere, and this is a good mentoring list to be part of.